Ok friends, time for me to put on my tinfoil hat.I upgraded my trusty R7 to the latest firmware this morning (1.3.0) and then put it through its paces to make sure things were ok.One thing I noticed was that it seemed to be shootingfewer fps than before in H+ mode. Instead of the normal 15fps, I was getting 9-10fps. "Huh," I thought. "Maybe I've got my settings wrong." Checked over everything. Changed lenses. Moved to a lighter environment. "Weird!"So I did a bit of a test. I mounted a couple of different lenses and measured the fps at different shutter speeds. I used one shot AF so it wasn't tracking all the time. I kept aperture wide open - f4.5 on my EF 100-400ii. I balanced ISO for optimum exposure, starting at ISO 125 to match 1/50 shutter speed.I conducted my test by establishing focus, then holding the shutter button for a few seconds (or until the buffer filled). I was in H+ mode, EFCS. I measured the fps by looking at how many frames were captured in a complete second of holding the shutter button, as per the recorded time in the EXIF data.Here's what I found:It also sounded even slower at lower shutter speeds than 1/50sec, but I didn't take a measurement.I double checked my measurements in a different lighting environment. All the same.Now - this is different to what I had before. Naturally the fps drops if we go below a certain shutter speed, but I was definitely getting 15fps at 1/50sec before.I should also mention that I still get 30fps in H+ electronic shutter at the above shutter speeds.Here's my tinfoil hat explanation:has canon throttled the fps of the R7in the above shutter speed rangeto address shutter shock? I say this because my prior tests with shutter shock showed that it vanished by about 1/500 to 1/640sec. I wonder if canon have noticed this and implemented an "fps curve" accordingly.To probe this idea further, I examined some shots at each of the listed shutter speeds, and indeed -there is now no/little evidence of shutter shock. It would seem that lowering the fps reduced the vibration of the shutter enough to mitigate the effects of shutter shock. This matches my prior observation that shutter shock is not present in H mode (8fps).So two questions for you all:I actually think this is a pretty good solution if these findings bear out in reality. It means that I wouldn't have to worry about switching back and forth between H+ and H modes to avoid shutter shock. I could just leave it in H+ mode and trust the camera to supply the fps needed for a vibration-free image. For fps critical applications necessitating a high shutter speed, I'll automatically be getting the full 15fps without having to think about my settings. Pretty good if true!Righto, so, what do you think?

FYI to add: I realise I hadn't tried with a different memory card. After reading Alastair's recent post about how memory cards can monkey with things, I repeated the test with two fresh cards. All the same results.

One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326).

I'm not disputing your current or previous results, but Canon does say a 1/1000 or higher shutter speed is required for 15fps in mech or EFCS  in the R7 User Guide.

BBR5 wrote:I'm not disputing your current or previous results, but Canon does say a 1/1000 or higher shutter speed is required for 15fps in mech or EFCS in the R7 User Guide.Yes, I think Canon is being pretty conservative there and is also trying to cover all lenses.  In my informal testing it seems like the effect is different for different lenses.  With my boat-anchor first generation IS supertelephoto lenses I see a lot less effect than light lenses.I think this is a nice improvement for Canon to make as it means that when conditions are right I can still get the full 15fps and when I’m likely to see shutter shock the camera automatically slows the frame rate just enough to be able to get maximum sharpness.  I prefer not to fill cards with bursts of slightly off photos that I need to delete later.  A lot of the time I am not sure where an opportunity is going to present itself and when it does i sometimes forget to think of issues like shutter shock in my excitement to get a picture.  This way I can more fully focus my attention on the subject and less on potential technical issues.  Big thumbs up to Canon for taking this action.

dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326).Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.

CamerEyes wrote:dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326)..)Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.Perhaps because the 100-400 is much heavier and hence can damp the shock impulse?

davesurrey wrote:CamerEyes wrote:dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326)..)Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.Perhaps because the 100-400 is much heavier and hence can damp the shock impulse?Perhaps! That can help explain why I get shutter shock from RFS18-150mm and from the RF16mm. Both are light lenses. Not all the time though.

CamerEyes wrote:davesurrey wrote:CamerEyes wrote:dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326)..)Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.Perhaps because the 100-400 is much heavier and hence can damp the shock impulse?Perhaps! That can help explain why I get shutter shock from RFS18-150mm and from the RF16mm. Both are light lenses. Not all the time though.Yes, perhaps. I'm just guessing based on simple physical principles.

This is very interesting, thanks for doing the detailed analysis.This doesn't surprise me that much, Canon is trying to improve image quality "in general" through algorithmic tweaks that will work "just fine for most people". This is almost certainly to address shutter shock issues (hopefully the R7 mk2 will have a damped shutter).I am guessing that the combination of slow shutter speed and high frame rate, is a relatively rare one. Most people use high frame rates to capture fast action, for which you would generally use a fast shutter. There are some edge cases -- BIF in low light? Motorsports where you want to see streaks? -- but I would guess those are relatively rare. If I'm doing slow shutter I am generally doing single-shot (like landscapes, events) or have a strobe. I'm sure there are other cases but none spring to mind.And of course you can always fall back to electronic shutter.Regards, Dan

davesurrey wrote:CamerEyes wrote:davesurrey wrote:CamerEyes wrote:dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326)..)Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.Perhaps because the 100-400 is much heavier and hence can damp the shock impulse?Perhaps! That can help explain why I get shutter shock from RFS18-150mm and from the RF16mm. Both are light lenses. Not all the time though.Yes, perhaps. I'm just guessing based on simple physical principles.I tend to agree that with heavier lenses, mass/inertia is playing a roll.

BirdShooter7 wrote:BBR5 wrote:I'm not disputing your current or previous results, but Canon does say a 1/1000 or higher shutter speed is required for 15fps in mech or EFCS in the R7 User Guide.Yes, I think Canon is being pretty conservative there and is also trying to cover all lenses. In my informal testing it seems like the effect is different for different lenses. With my boat-anchor first generation IS supertelephoto lenses I see a lot less effect than light lenses.I think this is a nice improvement for Canon to make as it means that when conditions are right I can still get the full 15fps and when I’m likely to see shutter shock the camera automatically slows the frame rate just enough to be able to get maximum sharpness. I prefer not to fill cards with bursts of slightly off photos that I need to delete later. A lot of the time I am not sure where an opportunity is going to present itself and when it does i sometimes forget to think of issues like shutter shock in my excitement to get a picture. This way I can more fully focus my attention on the subject and less on potential technical issues. Big thumbs up to Canon for taking this action.Those are my thoughts too. This is a logical way to address the issue. Thanks for your observation!

CamerEyes wrote:dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326).Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.I'm the same with my 100-400ii... Immune to shutter shock, I think because of weight as others have mentioned.Can you confirm you're still getting 15fps at, say, 1/50sec? On firmware 1.3.0, in EFCS mode? If so it might call my findings into question.

DanInSoCal wrote:This is very interesting, thanks for doing the detailed analysis.This doesn't surprise me that much, Canon is trying to improve image quality "in general" through algorithmic tweaks that will work "just fine for most people". This is almost certainly to address shutter shock issues (hopefully the R7 mk2 will have a damped shutter).I am guessing that the combination of slow shutter speed and high frame rate, is a relatively rare one. Most people use high frame rates to capture fast action, for which you would generally use a fast shutter. There are some edge cases -- BIF in low light? Motorsports where you want to see streaks? -- but I would guess those are relatively rare. If I'm doing slow shutter I am generally doing single-shot (like landscapes, events) or have a strobe. I'm sure there are other cases but none spring to mind.And of course you can always fall back to electronic shutter.Regards, DanTotally! I think it's a pretty good solution if I'm correct that its inherent to firmware 1.3.0 and not just a weird glitch in my camera.Is anyone else able to replicate my results?

dankenny wrote:DanInSoCal wrote:This is very interesting, thanks for doing the detailed analysis.This doesn't surprise me that much, Canon is trying to improve image quality "in general" through algorithmic tweaks that will work "just fine for most people". This is almost certainly to address shutter shock issues (hopefully the R7 mk2 will have a damped shutter).I am guessing that the combination of slow shutter speed and high frame rate, is a relatively rare one. Most people use high frame rates to capture fast action, for which you would generally use a fast shutter. There are some edge cases -- BIF in low light? Motorsports where you want to see streaks? -- but I would guess those are relatively rare. If I'm doing slow shutter I am generally doing single-shot (like landscapes, events) or have a strobe. I'm sure there are other cases but none spring to mind.And of course you can always fall back to electronic shutter.Regards, DanTotally! I think it's a pretty good solution if I'm correct that its inherent to firmware 1.3.0 and not just a weird glitch in my camera.Is anyone else able to replicate my results?I cannot replicate this on my R7 with 1.3.0 and a 100-400Just one thought, can you check what the camera believes the battery charge performance is? If it thinks the battery is not performant then it throttles EFCS. Same happens if I use an original LP-E6 without the N or r NH, it throttles EFCS. Some third party batteries also do this.

Distinctly Average wrote:dankenny wrote:DanInSoCal wrote:This is very interesting, thanks for doing the detailed analysis.This doesn't surprise me that much, Canon is trying to improve image quality "in general" through algorithmic tweaks that will work "just fine for most people". This is almost certainly to address shutter shock issues (hopefully the R7 mk2 will have a damped shutter).I am guessing that the combination of slow shutter speed and high frame rate, is a relatively rare one. Most people use high frame rates to capture fast action, for which you would generally use a fast shutter. There are some edge cases -- BIF in low light? Motorsports where you want to see streaks? -- but I would guess those are relatively rare. If I'm doing slow shutter I am generally doing single-shot (like landscapes, events) or have a strobe. I'm sure there are other cases but none spring to mind.And of course you can always fall back to electronic shutter.Regards, DanTotally! I think it's a pretty good solution if I'm correct that its inherent to firmware 1.3.0 and not just a weird glitch in my camera.Is anyone else able to replicate my results?I cannot replicate this on my R7 with 1.3.0 and a 100-400Just one thought, can you check what the camera believes the battery charge performance is? If it thinks the battery is not performant then it throttles EFCS. Same happens if I use an original LP-E6 without the N or r NH, it throttles EFCS. Some third party batteries also do this.Great question. I just checked and it's the NH battery with full recharge performance. I also changed to the N battery for test, then back to the NH. They both yield the same results.Any other settings I should check? Anyone else able to replicate?

John Photo wrote:davesurrey wrote:CamerEyes wrote:davesurrey wrote:CamerEyes wrote:dankenny wrote:One more finding for the interested observer:I've just discovered that the above results are only true in EFCS mode. Mechanical mode still gets 15fps at all the listed shutter speeds, without changing any other settings.If others can report the same results as mine, perhaps this would support my theory that Canon has done this to address shutter shock on EFCS mode. This is because lowering the fps would not help mechanical mode. (See this post by Circa1200AD if you're interested in why:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66836326)..)Your tests are interesting.I am getting max fps based on specs provided in the user's manual. And my own experience is I get shutter shock both in mechanical (more) and EFCS (less). It is however largely dependent on the lens I'm using. Not sure why. I get no shutter shock using my EF100-400mm Mii. Again, I don't know why and I'm just happy about it.Perhaps because the 100-400 is much heavier and hence can damp the shock impulse?Perhaps! That can help explain why I get shutter shock from RFS18-150mm and from the RF16mm. Both are light lenses. Not all the time though.Yes, perhaps. I'm just guessing based on simple physical principles.I tend to agree that with heavier lenses, mass/inertia is playing a roll.The other differing experience I have is - I hardly experience shutter shock on EFCS regardless of lenses I use. It was more pronounced on mechanical shutter.

I emailed Canon to ask about whether my above findings were correct. Seems so! Here is a copy of their response:Thank you for contacting Canon Australia and thank you for the positive feedback.Your observations are correct, through firmware, some minor fixes were implemented.So there we go I guess!And my original email:Hi there!On the latest firmware for my R7 (1.3.0), I've noticed that the frames shot per second (fps) in burst mode have slowed down at certain shutter speeds.I conducted a test under the following conditions:Here are the fps results at various shutter speeds:Before the firmware update, I would still get 15fps at all the above shutter speeds.I re-tested with different lenses, a different memory card, a different battery, different lighting conditions, and different ISO/aperture combinations. The results were the same each time.Interestingly, these results only exist in EFCS mode. Mechanical shutter mode still gets 15fps at all the above shutter speeds with the same settings. Electronic shutter mode still gets 30fps too. So it seems this only affects EFCS.I wanted to ask if this is an intentional feature of firmware 1.3.0. If so, I think it's actually a quite a good feature! I've noticed that I no longer experience shutter shock in EFCS mode because of the slower fps below 1/640sec. Prior to this update, only the first frame of a burst shot in H+ mode would be optimally sharp in EFCS. Subsequent frames would be slightly blurred. But now, all the frames are optimally sharp.So to clarify - I'm not looking for a 'fix' for this! I think it's great! But I wanted to know if it was an intentional feature of 1.3.0 or if I've somehow encountered a helpful little bug...

dankenny wrote:I emailed Canon to ask about whether my above findings were correct. Seems so! Here is a copy of their response:Thank you for contacting Canon Australia and thank you for the positive feedback.Your observations are correct, through firmware, some minor fixes were implemented.So there we go I guess!And my original email:Hi there!On the latest firmware for my R7 (1.3.0), I've noticed that the frames shot per second (fps) in burst mode have slowed down at certain shutter speeds.I conducted a test under the following conditions:Here are the fps results at various shutter speeds:Before the firmware update, I would still get 15fps at all the above shutter speeds.I re-tested with different lenses, a different memory card, a different battery, different lighting conditions, and different ISO/aperture combinations. The results were the same each time.Interestingly, these results only exist in EFCS mode. Mechanical shutter mode still gets 15fps at all the above shutter speeds with the same settings. Electronic shutter mode still gets 30fps too. So it seems this only affects EFCS.I wanted to ask if this is an intentional feature of firmware 1.3.0. If so, I think it's actually a quite a good feature! I've noticed that I no longer experience shutter shock in EFCS mode because of the slower fps below 1/640sec. Prior to this update, only the first frame of a burst shot in H+ mode would be optimally sharp in EFCS. Subsequent frames would be slightly blurred. But now, all the frames are optimally sharp.So to clarify - I'm not looking for a 'fix' for this! I think it's great! But I wanted to know if it was an intentional feature of 1.3.0 or if I've somehow encountered a helpful little bug...Brilliant, many thanks for sharing!   I'll download Firmware 1.3.0.   Looks interesting in that 1/200-1/400s range.Wonder if we'll get the same in other R cameras?

KevinRA wrote:dankenny wrote:I emailed Canon to ask about whether my above findings were correct. Seems so! Here is a copy of their response:Thank you for contacting Canon Australia and thank you for the positive feedback.Your observations are correct, through firmware, some minor fixes were implemented.So there we go I guess!And my original email:Hi there!On the latest firmware for my R7 (1.3.0), I've noticed that the frames shot per second (fps) in burst mode have slowed down at certain shutter speeds.I conducted a test under the following conditions:Here are the fps results at various shutter speeds:Before the firmware update, I would still get 15fps at all the above shutter speeds.I re-tested with different lenses, a different memory card, a different battery, different lighting conditions, and different ISO/aperture combinations. The results were the same each time.Interestingly, these results only exist in EFCS mode. Mechanical shutter mode still gets 15fps at all the above shutter speeds with the same settings. Electronic shutter mode still gets 30fps too. So it seems this only affects EFCS.I wanted to ask if this is an intentional feature of firmware 1.3.0. If so, I think it's actually a quite a good feature! I've noticed that I no longer experience shutter shock in EFCS mode because of the slower fps below 1/640sec. Prior to this update, only the first frame of a burst shot in H+ mode would be optimally sharp in EFCS. Subsequent frames would be slightly blurred. But now, all the frames are optimally sharp.So to clarify - I'm not looking for a 'fix' for this! I think it's great! But I wanted to know if it was an intentional feature of 1.3.0 or if I've somehow encountered a helpful little bug...Brilliant, many thanks for sharing! I'll download Firmware 1.3.0. Looks interesting in that 1/200-1/400s range.Wonder if we'll get the same in other R cameras?+1Thanks for testing and sharing your insights Mr dankenny. This is important info for anyone loading the new firmware. Canon should mention such things when they release a new firmware. They say often: "some minor bugfixes"... that means nothing.