What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras?  Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.I've heard a lot about the 25 1.7 (both the Panasonic and Olympus versions) although there is some talk about focus drift possibly being an issue on this lens in particular (or that it can be far worse than on other lenses).I'm mainly looking for something that's reasonably fast (so f/2.8 or a fixed f/4 is fine) and something that's wide-ish, so maybe around 24mm to about 50mm in FF terms (I guess that would be something like 12mm to about 25mm in MFT terms).  I know it's a wide range but I want to keep options open (I'm OK with both zooms and primes, although I am trying to work within a $500 or less budget, so if I can get two decent primes for $500 that works too).REcommendations?  While I won't be buying a mft camera any time soon, it is something I've been considering, and before DPR shuts down, I just wanted to get some input from users on what lenses to look for.This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess.  The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpest, but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350).   I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.

Why would you want to "replace" those lenses? They are actually pretty good for standard kit lenses. I would "supplement" them with a  fast (f/2 or faster)prime in your preferred focal length. You can sort your photo's by focal length in most post processing software to see what your most used focal length is.Tedolph

Dear friend, never under estimate those kit class (f/3.5 or f/4~f/5.6) lenses from Panny. They are actually having IQ not really far behind their blue blood brothers.By chances I am conducting a research on the M43 lenses. Although DXOMarks has reviewed a limited number of M43 lenses, it has some very good source of info. The following is a recent research on sharpness of a few f/1.7~1.8 series of prime lenses to my interest. They are extracted from DXOMark's Field Map on sharpness:The Panny PL15 f/1.7, the Olympus 17 f/1.8, the P 20 f/1.7 and the P25 f/1.7Source:https://www.dxomark.com/lenses/brand-panasonic/launched-between-1987-and-2018/focal-from-1-to-1500/aperture_max-from-0.95-to-45/launch_price-from-0-to-13000-usd#hideAdvancedOptions=false&viewMode=list&yDataType=globalAlthough my research is not yet completed, AFAIK the Panny 14-42 f/3.5-5.6 mk-II should be able to hold up well against above prime lenses, at least not worse than the 25 f/1.7.Wide open of 14-42-II @14@18@25@35@42Unfortunately DXOMark has not tested 12-32, but OpticalLimit did (older tests of 14-42 mk-II and 12-32 both on GX1) which making it able to imagine the performance of 12-32 vs those f/1.7-1.8 prime lenses indirectly through 14-42 mk-II:Source:https://www.opticallimits.com/m43/873_pana1232f3556?start=1https://www.opticallimits.com/m43/844-panasonic1442f3556ii?start=1These low cost kit class lenses are really good on cost/performance IMHO. I don't have the 14-42 mk-II, but what could I ask more from my

sirhawkeye64 wrote:What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras? Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.…This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess. The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpest, but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350). I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.Get the camera with the kit lenses and work with them for a while to see how they are and if they're acceptable. I'd bet they are.Are the kit lenses the best lenses? NO. Do they have reasonable image quality? Absolutely.The kit lenses may end up being  good enough for a secondary system, since you have a FF system already, especially with a limited budget and in curiosity mode.Give the kit lenses a chance. In fact, most of the M4/3 kit lenses are actually pretty good.

tedolf wrote:Why would you want to "replace" those lenses? They are actually pretty good for standard kit lenses. I would "supplement" them with a fast (f/2 or faster)prime in your preferred focal length. You can sort your photo's by focal length in most post processing software to see what your most used focal length is.TedolphI'm not necessarily going to replace them, but I'm looking for something perhaps a bit faster and probably sharper (as I wasn't terribly convinced of the 12-32 at some FLs, although it does seem to sharpen up a bit in the latter half of the zoom range).  I'm still planning on buying the entire kit if I do get a GX85 as the price at $599 seems appropriate (and considering the two lenses by themselves are about $350 alone if buying new).

jeffharris wrote:sirhawkeye64 wrote:What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras? Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.…This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess. The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpest, but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350). I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.Get the camera with the kit lenses and work with them for a while to see how they are and if they're acceptable. I'd bet they are.Are the kit lenses the best lenses? NO. Do they have reasonable image quality? Absolutely.The kit lenses may end up being good enough for a secondary system, since you have a FF system already, especially with a limited budget and in curiosity mode.Give the kit lenses a chance. In fact, most of the M4/3 kit lenses are actually pretty good.This is probably what I'll end up dong, since the best value IS to buy the two lens kit.  More than likely I wouldn't actaully sell the "kit" lenses anyway, but might add something a bit faster (but have to restrain myself a bit here since it's not my primary system and the last thing I want to do is invest a ton of money into a secondary system that's really mean for when I want to go light / smaller).

In that sense the 12~35 f/2.8 mk-I could be considered.Faster, not cost as much as mk-II or the PL version, DUAL IS on GX85 for 5 solid stops of effective stabilization, WR (although GX85 is not WR), and still not huge nor heavy (in similar length of 14~42, weight only 305g...The draw back is for best edge to edge sharpness this lens should stop down to f/3.5 making it not much better vs my good old 14~45 f/3.5-5.6 (which is marginally better than 12~32).For normal shooting, I am now using 12~32 a lot for the saving of 230g vs 12~35 on G85. However for a recent flower show, I found the 12~32 couldn't satisfy me (specially on the edge performance) and so, 12~35 was used. Happy with the extra mile of improvement (for my pixel peeking on tiny flowers at close up range).12~40 f/2.8 could be a marginally better lens (on edge, longer reaching and can shoot closer) but it is non IS. I have little confidence on the IBIS of GX85. 12~40 is also larger.My 2 cents.

sirhawkeye64 wrote:What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras? Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.The 12-32 is surprisingly sharp for its size and price. Mine is comparable in sharpness to my more expensive 12-35/2.8.I've heard a lot about the 25 1.7 (both the Panasonic and Olympus versions) although there is some talk about focus drift possibly being an issue on this lens in particular (or that it can be far worse than on other lenses).I'm mainly looking for something that's reasonably fast (so f/2.8 or a fixed f/4 is fine) and something that's wide-ish, so maybe around 24mm to about 50mm in FF terms (I guess that would be something like 12mm to about 25mm in MFT terms). I know it's a wide range but I want to keep options open (I'm OK with both zooms and primes, although I am trying to work within a $500 or less budget, so if I can get two decent primes for $500 that works too).I recently sold my 12-35/2.8 MkI in good condition for $329.REcommendations? While I won't be buying a mft camera any time soon, it is something I've been considering, and before DPR shuts down, I just wanted to get some input from users on what lenses to look for.This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess. The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.Over the past two years, I switched from MFT to 35mm format for my corporate event work. Rather than retain part of my MFT kit for casual use, I've adopted a Panasonic FZ1000 MkII as a complement to my work kit. The main reason I didn't keep some of my MFT gear is that I knew I'd be tempted to buy/keep more lenses than I really need and I'd be dithering endlessly over which gear to bring with me on every photo walk.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpestAs mentioned above, my 12-32 is quite good, better than it has a right to be, really. Much like the 14-140/3.5-5.6 in this regard., but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350). I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.

sirhawkeye64 wrote:What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras? Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.I've heard a lot about the 25 1.7 (both the Panasonic and Olympus versions) although there is some talk about focus drift possibly being an issue on this lens in particular (or that it can be far worse than on other lenses).I'm mainly looking for something that's reasonably fast (so f/2.8 or a fixed f/4 is fine) and something that's wide-ish, so maybe around 24mm to about 50mm in FF terms (I guess that would be something like 12mm to about 25mm in MFT terms). I know it's a wide range but I want to keep options open (I'm OK with both zooms and primes, although I am trying to work within a $500 or less budget, so if I can get two decent primes for $500 that works too).REcommendations? While I won't be buying a mft camera any time soon, it is something I've been considering, and before DPR shuts down, I just wanted to get some input from users on what lenses to look for.This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess. The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpest, but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350). I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.Gx85 See if you can find it with a 12-32mm. Buy the Lumix 20mm f1.7.Want more reach, go with the Lumix 14-140 f3.5-5.6 (there's a 14-140 f4-6.3, make sure you go with the smaller, faster one).

sirhawkeye64 wrote:tedolf wrote:Why would you want to "replace" those lenses? They are actually pretty good for standard kit lenses. I would "supplement" them with a fast (f/2 or faster)prime in your preferred focal length. You can sort your photo's by focal length in most post processing software to see what your most used focal length is.TedolphI'm not necessarily going to replace them,Seems like "replace" is the word you used : "What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras?".but I'm looking for something perhaps a bit faster and probably sharper (as I wasn't terribly convinced of the 12-32 at some FLs, although it does seem to sharpen up a bit in the latter half of the zoom range).So what focal length are you interested in? If you can't tell us that we cant help you.  If you don't know, tell us what subjects you are interested in photographing.I'm still planning on buying the entire kit if I do get a GX85 as the price at $599 seems appropriate (and considering the two lenses by themselves are about $350 alone if buying new).The kit lenses alone are worth about $75.00 USD.Tedolph

If you want to replace a kit zoom, a used Panasonic 12-35/2.8 mk i is the obvious choice.If you want to extend the zoom range, it's a 14-140 mk ii. The only good thing about the 35-100mm kit lens is OIS, otherwise there are better choices, unless size is your main concern. (I'm happy with mine but also have an Olympus 40-150 R when weight is the key).If you want best result for cost in a fast prime, it's 25/1.4 mk i (IQ is excellent, with that hard to describe "rendering", AF is slower than a modern lens).If you want best result for size, then a 20/1.7 is good. Can't use it for video, won't work in CAF, and focus is possibly the slowest of all MFT lenses.I haven't researched it, but the 15/1.7 has a good reputation. Might be worth a look if 35mm is your favourite prime.Samyang 7.5mm manual fisheye is good, but buy from a source where you can return a poor copy.I prefer Olympus/OM bodies and have a fair number of Olympus Pro lenses. Panasonic seem to do small cheap lenses better, especially the performance/value ratio of used mk i copies.If your budget grows as you get to like using MFT, then the Laowa 6/2 and 10/2 are good electronic MF lenses, with sunstars. Like cheap CV lenses in rendering and build but more veiling glare (as bad as the new Sony 20-70/4).My tiny kit is GM1, 7.5mm fishy, 12-32mm kit, 20/1.7, 35-100mm kitMy small kit is EM1.1 Laowa 10/2, PL 25/1.4 and 40-150mm R (the Plastic Fantastic)My ordinary kit is OM1, 8/1.8 Pro fishy, 10/2, 12-40/2.8, 40-150/2.8, 300/4, plus 25/1.4 as alternative to fisheye, or adapted Zuiko 50/2 macro.I also have an FF kit, a heavy Manfrotto, square filter set etc for landscape.I think your plan is a good one! Be aware of Dual-IS 1 and 2, weathersealing and AF when making choices. Pansonic uses Depth from Defocus CDAF not PDAF. Seems to work OK, indeed better than CDAF-SAF on the OM1 (don't shoot me guys! - I always use CAF-hybrid on the OM1 and FF body when AF speed matters.)Happy to have a popup fill flash instead of an EVFAndrew

When travelling, I usually bring the 12-32mm f/3.5-5.6, 20mm f/1.7, 100-300mm f/4-5.6 (not the best, but quite light). And often some ultrawide, e.g., the Samyang 7.5mm f/3.5.https://m43photo.blogspot.com/

Jacques Cornell wrote:sirhawkeye64 wrote:What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras? Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.The 12-32 is surprisingly sharp for its size and price. Mine is comparable in sharpness to my more expensive 12-35/2.8.I've heard a lot about the 25 1.7 (both the Panasonic and Olympus versions) although there is some talk about focus drift possibly being an issue on this lens in particular (or that it can be far worse than on other lenses).I'm mainly looking for something that's reasonably fast (so f/2.8 or a fixed f/4 is fine) and something that's wide-ish, so maybe around 24mm to about 50mm in FF terms (I guess that would be something like 12mm to about 25mm in MFT terms). I know it's a wide range but I want to keep options open (I'm OK with both zooms and primes, although I am trying to work within a $500 or less budget, so if I can get two decent primes for $500 that works too).I recently sold my 12-35/2.8 MkI in good condition for $329.REcommendations? While I won't be buying a mft camera any time soon, it is something I've been considering, and before DPR shuts down, I just wanted to get some input from users on what lenses to look for.This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess. The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.Over the past two years, I switched from MFT to 35mm format for my corporate event work. Rather than retain part of my MFT kit for casual use, I've adopted a Panasonic FZ1000 MkII as a complement to my work kit. The main reason I didn't keep some of my MFT gear is that I knew I'd be tempted to buy/keep more lenses than I really need and I'd be dithering endlessly over which gear to bring with me on every photo walk.I looked at the ZS100 and ZS200 for their compactness, but was a bit concerned about the lens quality (I heard some people talk about the ZS100 having sharpness issues around 50mm , and probably in other areas too).  I mean the price is not bad, but it's also not that much smaller than a GX85 (for the body at least, when you add the lens to a GX85 then it's different).  The FZ1000 is probably too big and I would just opt to use one of my NIkons at that point though.For me, all I want is really something on the shorter end which is probably what I'll use it most for (so between say 24-70mm equivalent).  The 45-150 kit lens will be nice for the just-in-case moments.  I don't plan to buy that much more (except maybe a 17 or 25 as a fast prime) but not much more than the kit lenses.  I've been down that road with Fuji (had a Fuji and Nikon simulatenously in the past and that got expensive, so I decided to sell the Fuji kit and buy a second Nikon body, but now regret some of that -- as the Fuji [xt20] with the 15-45 or 18-55 would have made sense to keep and sell just the rest of the lenses.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpestAs mentioned above, my 12-32 is quite good, better than it has a right to be, really. Much like the 14-140/3.5-5.6 in this regard., but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350). I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.

The 12-32 is pretty sharp--my copy at last. It's constrained by no focus ring or bayonet hood, in addition to the relatively short zoom range. The more recent 12-45 has mostly replaced it for my compact kit--an optical gem that's also weatherproof.Also have the Oly 12/2, 25/1.8 and 45/1.8. Being stops faster and tiny, they make good addition to a kit-zoom setup. The 45 has some field curvature wide open but makes a good portrait lens. The 25 is a gem and the 12 has added benefits of snap MF and metal construction. Each is tiny.Some ideas, as you poke around a very crowded arena.Cheers,Rick

alcelc wrote:Dear friend, never under estimate those kit class (f/3.5 or f/4~f/5.6) lenses from Panny. They are actually having IQ not really far behind their blue blood brothers.By chances I am conducting a research on the M43 lenses. Although DXOMarks has reviewed a limited number of M43 lenses, it has some very good source of info. The following is a recent research on sharpness of a few f/1.7~1.8 series of prime lenses to my interest. They are extracted from DXOMark's Field Map on sharpness:The Panny PL15 f/1.7, the Olympus 17 f/1.8, the P 20 f/1.7 and the P25 f/1.7Source:https://www.dxomark.com/lenses/brand-panasonic/launched-between-1987-and-2018/focal-from-1-to-1500/aperture_max-from-0.95-to-45/launch_price-from-0-to-13000-usd#hideAdvancedOptions=false&viewMode=list&yDataType=globalAlthough my research is not yet completed, AFAIK the Panny 14-42 f/3.5-5.6 mk-II should be able to hold up well against above prime lenses, at least not worse than the 25 f/1.7.Wide open of 14-42-II @14@18@25@35@42Unfortunately DXOMark has not tested 12-32, but OpticalLimit did (older tests of 14-42 mk-II and 12-32 both on GX1) which making it able to imagine the performance of 12-32 vs those f/1.7-1.8 prime lenses indirectly through 14-42 mk-II:Source:https://www.opticallimits.com/m43/873_pana1232f3556?start=1https://www.opticallimits.com/m43/844-panasonic1442f3556ii?start=1These low cost kit class lenses are really good on cost/performance IMHO. I don't have the 14-42 mk-II, but what could I ask more from my

Thank you Alcelc for posting this information and the accompanying links!  This kind of contribution is one of the things I'm really going to miss here!  Hope to see you on other forums when the dust settles.

sirhawkeye64 wrote:Jacques Cornell wrote:sirhawkeye64 wrote:What are some suggestions for replacements for the typical kit lenses found on the Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 cameras? Typically I've seen the 12-32 and 14-42 offered.The 12-32 is surprisingly sharp for its size and price. Mine is comparable in sharpness to my more expensive 12-35/2.8.I've heard a lot about the 25 1.7 (both the Panasonic and Olympus versions) although there is some talk about focus drift possibly being an issue on this lens in particular (or that it can be far worse than on other lenses).I'm mainly looking for something that's reasonably fast (so f/2.8 or a fixed f/4 is fine) and something that's wide-ish, so maybe around 24mm to about 50mm in FF terms (I guess that would be something like 12mm to about 25mm in MFT terms). I know it's a wide range but I want to keep options open (I'm OK with both zooms and primes, although I am trying to work within a $500 or less budget, so if I can get two decent primes for $500 that works too).I recently sold my 12-35/2.8 MkI in good condition for $329.REcommendations? While I won't be buying a mft camera any time soon, it is something I've been considering, and before DPR shuts down, I just wanted to get some input from users on what lenses to look for.This camera -- if I do bother to get one at all- would be just for casual shooting, as I have my FF system for more demanding tasks or more serious work I guess. The mft would be for travel and may be used in addition to my FF cameras.Over the past two years, I switched from MFT to 35mm format for my corporate event work. Rather than retain part of my MFT kit for casual use, I've adopted a Panasonic FZ1000 MkII as a complement to my work kit. The main reason I didn't keep some of my MFT gear is that I knew I'd be tempted to buy/keep more lenses than I really need and I'd be dithering endlessly over which gear to bring with me on every photo walk.I looked at the ZS100 and ZS200 for their compactness, but was a bit concerned about the lens quality (I heard some people talk about the ZS100 having sharpness issues around 50mm , and probably in other areas too). I mean the price is not bad, but it's also not that much smaller than a GX85 (for the body at least, when you add the lens to a GX85 then it's different).Yeah, I wouldn't. Long-zoom compacts tend to underperform relative to their sensors' potential. That's why I chose an LX10 for pocket carry - the lens and sensor are a good match, and the results are sufficiently close to what I'd get from my GX9 with 12-32, certainly good enough for a crisp 24" print, which is my minimum standard for a casual camera.The FZ1000 is probably too big and I would just opt to use one of my NIkons at that point though.I get that. It's not smaller than my a7RIII with 28-60, though it is lighter. But, what it does for me is eliminate dithering. The line of delineation is clear. If Imightencounter a shot worthy of a 24" print, and I want to keep things simple while still having a 25-400mm EFL range to cover whatever I may find, I take the FZ. If I'm filled with ambition and hoping to make something salable, I'll take whatever it takes.For me, all I want is really something on the shorter end which is probably what I'll use it most for (so between say 24-70mm equivalent). The 45-150 kit lens will be nice for the just-in-case moments. I don't plan to buy that much more (except maybe a 17 or 25 as a fast prime) but not much more than the kit lenses. I've been down that road with Fuji (had a Fuji and Nikon simulatenously in the past and that got expensive, so I decided to sell the Fuji kit and buy a second Nikon body, but now regret some of that -- as the Fuji [xt20] with the 15-45 or 18-55 would have made sense to keep and sell just the rest of the lenses.In that case, the LX10, LX100 MkII and GX85 with 12-32 are all good candidates. The latter two have EVFs and hotshoes. The LX100 will capture the most light in dim conditions. Many folks don't realize what a great low-light camera it is. A key question is whether, realistically, you'll want additional lenses. With an extensive 35mm-format kit, I found that I no longer needed an ILC for casual use.(Not that it really matters, but for cameras I'm considering just getting the GX85 with the 2 lenses, but I've seen that the 12-32 and 14-42 are not the sharpestAs mentioned above, my 12-32 is quite good, better than it has a right to be, really. Much like the 14-140/3.5-5.6 in this regard., but the price for the kit -- when on sale, is only $600 and if you take out the lenses from the kit, it means the camera body itself is only about $350). I don't really want the kit lenses but it's really the only way to buy the camera new these days.

The Pany 12-32mm is a great kit lens. My copy is especially sharp at 12mm and the value can’t be beat.If you want a noticeable step up in sharpness across the range of FLs and constant aperture,  then you will spend a lot more for either the Pan 12-35mm f/2.8 or the Oly 12-45 f/4.

The term "kit lens" rarely means anything else than this. (Although there was one Panasonic 14-42 that came with a plastic mount as kit lens and metal mount when bought separately.)So you should consider every lens just by its own merit. Olympus used to offer the 12-40 f/2.8 as a kit lens with some cameras and now OM-D offers the 12-45 f/4 as kit lens with some cameras. Both are labeled "pro" lenses (which mainly means some splash resistance).Most less expensive lenses sold as kit lenses have a variable aperture f/3.5-5.6 (some even slower). The f/5.6 at the long end is the main limiting factor. Zoom lenses with f/3.5-5.6 were common on 35mm film cameras, and were considered slow because you could not change ISO on a shot by shot basis. With digital you can and f/3.5-5.6 is more than adequate on full frame cameras, but on m43 it means that in terms of light gathering and depth of focus it is like f/7-11 on full frame, meaning very slow.So if I were you I would mainly look for a zoom lens that is 12-xxx (12 being considerably wider than 14) and no slower than f/4 at the long end.