d7100 auto wb is ok but grey card pre set i think is better

Very good results and nicely composed too. I agree the grey card gives excellent exposure. I assume the mode used for this was M (probably the easiest way to do it)?

Lovely flowers.

LudwigVB wrote:Very good results and nicely composed too. I agree the grey card gives excellent exposure. I assume the mode used for this was M (probably the easiest way to do it)?I always use the wb settings in camera but i think i am loving the results of custom wb with grey card.there is a great video on youtube that teaches how to use grey card during live view with d7100 that i was not aware of .

LudwigVB wrote:I agree the grey card gives excellent exposure.Define 'excellent'. By whose standards? What makes an exposure 'excellent'? If it is what the photographer intended, then it is automatically a subjective thing (hint: it is indeed; I find the last photo a bit too overexposed formytaste).Oh, and in case someone thinks of that, an exposurecannotbe defined as 'excellent' simply in terms of a histogram. There are many kinds of photos where blocked shadows or blown highlightsshouldbe part of the composition

for me the fastest way to measure white balance is to switch to live view. (I really never use live view, but for whitebalance measurement it is very handy) In Live View you can measure your white balance from a little square (spot white balance) and not the whole frame as through your viewfinder.Maybe somebody else also have a good suggestion to use user defined WB.

Are we admiring the white balance or the exposure?

Those are pretty good!As you probably know, there are two reasons to use a gray card: one is for exposure, and the other is for white balance.Be aware that exposure-wise, metering off a gray card may not get you your desired exposure, and it might not even get you the exposure that is intended by the ISO standard. Often it is believed that a gray card is designed to give you correct exposure, but rather it should be instead used as an objective guide. One problem with modern digital cameras is that they have a tendency to overexpose — where you lose highlight detail — even if, or especially if you meter off a card. I often underexpose my images according to what my meter says to avoid this problem — however, you probably can get good exposure from a card if your subject is uniformly lit and if there is no light source or other brighter-lit objects within the camera frame.The other use of a gray card is white balance — as long as the card is actually objectively neutral in color. The old Kodak gray card is not neutral, nor may be other cards that are solely designed for exposure.Your images appear to have a rather noticeable warm or an orange color cast, which may or may not be intentional, but the chosen white balance, coupled with slight over exposure, has led to some of the color being clipped — the color of the highlights have been shifted towards orange and yellow, as the camera’s red color channel becomes overexposed. Since one of the primary characteristics of these flowers is their color, I think you might get a more pleasing final image if you backed off of the exposure a bit, or if you use a neutral white balance.

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:Those are pretty good!As you probably know, there are two reasons to use a gray card: one is for exposure, and the other is for white balance.Be aware that exposure-wise, metering off a gray card may not get you your desired exposure, and it might not even get you the exposure that is intended by the ISO standard. Often it is believed that a gray card is designed to give you correct exposure, but rather it should be instead used as an objective guide. One problem with modern digital cameras is that they have a tendency to overexpose — where you lose highlight detail — even if, or especially if you meter off a card. I often underexpose my images according to what my meter says to avoid this problem — however, you probably can get good exposure from a card if your subject is uniformly lit and if there is no light source or other brighter-lit objects within the camera frame.The other use of a gray card is white balance — as long as the card is actually objectively neutral in color. The old Kodak gray card is not neutral, nor may be other cards that are solely designed for exposure.Your images appear to have a rather noticeable warm or an orange color cast, which may or may not be intentional, but the chosen white balance, coupled with slight over exposure, has led to some of the color being clipped — the color of the highlights have been shifted towards orange and yellow, as the camera’s red color channel becomes overexposed. Since one of the primary characteristics of these flowers is their color, I think you might get a more pleasing final image if you backed off of the exposure a bit, or if you use a neutral white balance.wow it seems you know your stuff thank you.....i was going after WB and not exposure , i did tweak the color in nx2 could that have messed up the color channels ? i have a graduation and a christening to shoot soon and i was trying to learn better wb control and exposure to eliminate so much post edit work.

rska2013 wrote:wow it seems you know your stuff thank you.....You’re welcome!i was going after WB and not exposure , i did tweak the color in nx2 could that have messed up the color channels ?That’s possible. Here is a test:Does this gray scale look completely neutral to you? Or is there a blue color cast?Each tone is neutral and ought to appear neutral on your monitor.i have a graduation and a christening to shoot soon and i was trying to learn better wb control and exposure to eliminate so much post edit work.Good luck!  This is an important skill to learn.

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:rska2013 wrote:wow it seems you know your stuff thank you.....You’re welcome!i was going after WB and not exposure , i did tweak the color in nx2 could that have messed up the color channels ?That’s possible. Here is a test:Does this gray scale look completely neutral to you? Or is there a blue color cast?Each tone is neutral and ought to appear neutral on your monitor.i do not see and blue tonei have a graduation and a christening to shoot soon and i was trying to learn better wb control and exposure to eliminate so much post edit work.Good luck! This is an important skill to learn.

rska2013 wrote:i do not see and blue toneThat’s good — that removes one variable.

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:Those are pretty good!As you probably know, there are two reasons to use a gray card: one is for exposure, and the other is for white balance.Be aware that exposure-wise, metering off a gray card may not get you your desired exposure, and it might not even get you the exposure that is intended by the ISO standard. Often it is believed that a gray card is designed to give you correct exposure, but rather it should be instead used as an objective guide. One problem with modern digital cameras is that they have a tendency to overexpose — where you lose highlight detail — even if, or especially if you meter off a card. I often underexpose my images according to what my meter says to avoid this problem — however, you probably can get good exposure from a card if your subject is uniformly lit and if there is no light source or other brighter-lit objects within the camera frame.The other use of a gray card is white balance — as long as the card is actually objectively neutral in color. The old Kodak gray card is not neutral, nor may be other cards that are solely designed for exposure.Your images appear to have a rather noticeable warm or an orange color cast, which may or may not be intentional, but the chosen white balance, coupled with slight over exposure, has led to some of the color being clipped — the color of the highlights have been shifted towards orange and yellow, as the camera’s red color channel becomes overexposed. Since one of the primary characteristics of these flowers is their color, I think you might get a more pleasing final image if you backed off of the exposure a bit, or if you use a neutral white balance.I never use a graycard for exposure. (sure a graycard gives the sensor the 18% exposure it expects) I just take a shot with the help of the exposure reading in my viewfinder. Then I check the histogram of the photo. (place of the histogram, clipping) After that I change my exposure (exposure compensation), take a second shot, check the histogram and look at the highlights and shadow areas to see if the result is what I want it to be.Most of the time you will see that exposure is not a percentage of light that comes of a graycard, it is often your taste and expectations what the photo must look like. (the expectations will be limited by the dynamic range of your sensor, but that is a whole other theory that can be discussed in an other thread on the forum)

RemcoDo wrote:Most of the time you will see that exposure is not a percentage of light that comes of a graycard, it is often your taste and expectations what the photo must look like.And the same goes for white balance, to certain extents. And that's why I never use a grey card for either (the only exception I could think of is product shots, where a product needs to look a particular color - its real one - , end of story).I don't claim grey cards are useless, I only claim they are like histograms: they are to be consulted perhaps, but never relied on.Here's a typical example:The bottom one is the result you would get using a grey card (or the white surface of the fridge for that matter). And yet, the top image is the 'correct' one (=how the scene really looked).

I personally think that the use of a grey card has been rendered unnecessary by post processing. I admire the technique, but between PS6, Topaz, Lightroom, etc., etc., etc., you can do much more than possible with almost any preset.I have also found that every time you point the camera at a new subject, with different lighting, you need to change the custom WB.  The AWB on the D7100 is very good, improved over the D300, IMO.But, very nice images!  Seeing them caused me to finally buy the used Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro that I have been meaning to buy for many years.Regards,

DigitalPhilosopher wrote:RemcoDo wrote:Most of the time you will see that exposure is not a percentage of light that comes of a graycard, it is often your taste and expectations what the photo must look like.And the same goes for white balance, to certain extents. And that's why I never use a grey card for either (the only exception I could think of is product shots, where a product needs to look a particular color - its real one - , end of story).I don't claim grey cards are useless, I only claim they are like histograms: they are to be consulted perhaps, but never relied on.Here's a typical example:The bottom one is the result you would get using a grey card (or the white surface of the fridge for that matter). And yet, the top image is the 'correct' one (=how the scene really looked).i understand your point showing that grey card could decide what it thinks is correct vs what the shot actualy looked like. so now that i wasted money on a grey card because so many articles claim using a grey card or expodisc  is a must for true color .......now confused

i understand your point showing that grey card could decide what it thinks is correct vs what the shot actualy looked like. so now that i wasted money on a grey card because so many articles claim using a grey card or expodisc is a must for true color .......now confusedA gray card makes it possible to capture the true colors. (almost, because if you are in a situation with a lot of different colored lightsources you still have a color problem).A gray card is still a must have tool in situations where your camera is easily confused like sunny day shadow areas, indesent light etc. (like shooting a basketball game and every photo has a blue cast over it.)There are also situations where you probably are happy with the discolored result. You invite people to come over to your house to have dinner. You did everyting to create that special atmosphere. Because you want to capture (a bit of) the atmosphere as well, you do not mind a little bit of orange skintone.You can do a little experiment. Take a piece of true white paper. In whatever environment you are, when you look at the paper you see a white paper. The paper is changing color but your brain is telling you that the paper is white. Your camera does not have a brain and produces a photo with the colors it sees. One time your paper is orange next time blue etc. This is why you need WB and sometimes need a gray card.And......if you think white balance is important, RAW shooting is a must.

Mark Scott, I see you own  a D7000. So do I and I have a recurring problem. My wife is an artist and before she delivers commissioned paintings to her client, I photograph the canvas for an archive record.I use off-camera SB Nikon Speedlights and I shoot in the longest room the house to allow use of my highest res lens, the 60mm Micro Nano. On a day with plenty of spare time, I put the strobes in Softboxes aimed at 45° from left and right sides. Shutter mode on the camera is set to M. And both strobes are also in manual mode. Or TTl if I feel like it.Here's the hurdle. When i don't have much time (setting up Softboxes on light stands takes nearly 30 minutes), I shoot with the LumiPro 80-20 bounce reflector. In this fashion, 20% of the light bounces off the ceiling. The wall paint has a distinct pink cast. The same trouble occurs if I use two Gary Fong light domes on light stands. The non-direct flash seriously alters the WB of the shot. The colors don't look true.I've tried setting camera WB to the Lightning Bolt setting. I've tried WB on Auto. And  I've experimented in PP with the Aperture program. That isn't real easy. The Auto WB in the Adjustment controls doesn't get it right. That Adjustment toolkit allow me to set a Gray Balance. The results aren't satisfying. And they aren't easy.Which method should I play with:a) WB settings on the camera (using a white or 18% grey card)b) Adjustments of WB or Gray in Aperturec) Using the 'eyedropper' tool in Aperture Adjustments lift & stamp from a pure white object in the frame.Gosh, after 45 years of shooting, I honestly can't claim that I know what constituteswhite.

bravozulu wrote:Mark Scott, I see you own a D7000. So do I and I have a recurring problem. My wife is an artist and before she delivers commissioned paintings to her client, I photograph the canvas for an archive record.I use off-camera SB Nikon Speedlights and I shoot in the longest room the house to allow use of my highest res lens, the 60mm Micro Nano. On a day with plenty of spare time, I put the strobes in Softboxes aimed at 45° from left and right sides. Shutter mode on the camera is set to M. And both strobes are also in manual mode. Or TTl if I feel like it.Here's the hurdle. When i don't have much time (setting up Softboxes on light stands takes nearly 30 minutes), I shoot with the LumiPro 80-20 bounce reflector. In this fashion, 20% of the light bounces off the ceiling. The wall paint has a distinct pink cast. The same trouble occurs if I use two Gary Fong light domes on light stands. The non-direct flash seriously alters the WB of the shot. The colors don't look true.I've tried setting camera WB to the Lightning Bolt setting. I've tried WB on Auto. And I've experimented in PP with the Aperture program. That isn't real easy. The Auto WB in the Adjustment controls doesn't get it right. That Adjustment toolkit allow me to set a Gray Balance. The results aren't satisfying. And they aren't easy.Which method should I play with:a) WB settings on the camera (using a white or 18% grey card)b) Adjustments of WB or Gray in Aperturec) Using the 'eyedropper' tool in Aperture Adjustments lift & stamp from a pure white object in the frame.Gosh, after 45 years of shooting, I honestly can't claim that I know what constituteswhite.The fastest one shot way is to shoot the painting with the gray card near the painting, but in a place you will crop out when post processing. Before you crop, use the grey card to use as neutral control point or in the camera settings change the white balance (preferable a marquee sample)If you can not find a place for the gray card that can be cropped out, you take two shots, one with the gray card and one without. In post processing you use the gray card version to change the white balance, save the changes and apply these changes to the version without the gray card. (if you have a lot of photo's you can apply all the changes to your photo's in batch processing)

It's that darn pinkish cast from the wall paint. And you know the problem continually morphs.a) totally non-existent when I use soft boxes.b) change with time of day or night, due to window light.c) sensitive to placement of flash in Hotshoe or remote in Gary Fong LightDomes.Always changes. As to b), sunlight through the windows is quite strong here in Southern California.Looks like I invest in an 18% grey card.Thanks for your expertise.