Everyone needs to stop believing that Nikon, Canon or Sony have some secret formula for mirrorless. The tech is around and OLD by modern standards.There's no glimmer of a remote reason where we should ponder that Nikon/Canon will have any issue making awesome mirrorless cameras.The mount is the THING!There is strong indication that Nikon has made their Z lens mount significantly larger. It may be in the 52mm to 65mm range and that's a huge deal.Why? Because... it allows for these advantages...1) Faster glass. ISO and fast glass equations are what newbies cling too. Fast glass allows for shooting in less light without ISO IQ compromise. It allows for more control of DOF and more enhanced bokeh. Higher ISO is not a substitute for faster glass.2) Smaller flatter lenses are possible...and lighter.3) Quality of bokeh improves overall for fast glass.4) MF sensor capability within the system. Larger sensors now fit with superior low-light performance. The FX sensor BARELY fits in the Sony system because it was adopted from a CROP SENSOR design.Canon certainly has a window open to match or top Nikon on this. But Sony is, at least for now, stuck with a mount that was designed for CROP SENSORS. That's a fact.I'm no expert on this, far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who can shed more light on this...as it were!Rob

Interesting points already under discussion in various threads already...M.

mr_marlo wrote:Interesting points already under discussion in various threads already...M.MOUNTcentric thread.Rob

and to top it off you get a glowing mount!!

M.

MrHollywood wrote:I'm no expert on thisWell that's disappointing., far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who canshed more light on this...as it were!Shouldn't be hard.  Isn't that the purpose of the bigger mount?Rob

MrHollywood wrote:Everyone needs to stop believing that Nikon, Canon or Sony have some secret formula for mirrorless. The tech is around and OLD by modern standards.There's no glimmer of a remote reason where we should ponder that Nikon/Canon will have any issue making awesome mirrorless cameras.The mount is the THING!There is strong indication that Nikon has made their Z lens mount significantly larger. It may be in the 52mm to 65mm range and that's a huge deal.Why? Because... it allows for these advantages...1) Faster glass. ISO and fast glass equations are what newbies cling too. Fast glass allows for shooting in less light without ISO IQ compromise. It allows for more control of DOF and more enhanced bokeh. Higher ISO is not a substitute for faster glass.2) Smaller flatter lenses are possible...and lighter.3) Quality of bokeh improves overall for fast glass.4) MF sensor capability within the system. Larger sensors now fit with superior low-light performance. The FX sensor BARELY fits in the Sony system because it was adopted from a CROP SENSOR design.Canon certainly has a window open to match or top Nikon on this. But Sony is, at least for now, stuck with a mount that was designed for CROP SENSORS. That's a fact.I'm no expert on this, far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who can shed more light on this...as it were!RobWhat about a square sensor that would be cool. Did you know that years ago Nikon patented a removable sensor on a cartridge. Why not that as well?

I would also add development of native glass to fit the new mount.  Sony has a lead in that area.  Adapted lenses and adapters are not as good as native glass and it takes time to develop native lenses.

MrHollywood wrote:Everyone needs to stop believing that Nikon, Canon or Sony have some secret formula for mirrorless. The tech is around and OLD by modern standards.There's no glimmer of a remote reason where we should ponder that Nikon/Canon will have any issue making awesome mirrorless cameras.The mount is the THING!There is strong indication that Nikon has made their Z lens mount significantly larger. It may be in the 52mm to 65mm range and that's a huge deal.Why? Because... it allows for these advantages...1) Faster glass. ISO and fast glass equations are what newbies cling too. Fast glass allows for shooting in less light without ISO IQ compromise. It allows for more control of DOF and more enhanced bokeh. Higher ISO is not a substitute for faster glass.2) Smaller flatter lenses are possible...and lighter.3) Quality of bokeh improves overall for fast glass.4) MF sensor capability within the system. Larger sensors now fit with superior low-light performance. The FX sensor BARELY fits in the Sony system because it was adopted from a CROP SENSOR design.Canon certainly has a window open to match or top Nikon on this. But Sony is, at least for now, stuck with a mount that was designed for CROP SENSORS. That's a fact.I'm no expert on this, far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who can shed more light on this...as it were!RobTwo main reasons to increase the diameter of the mount, currently the max internal diameter of the inside of the rear of the lens barrel where it protrudes into the mount is around 40mm for both the Sony E and Nikon F mounts, a mount that provides a larger internal diameter bigger than the diagonal of the sensor 43mm is obviously better, it eliminates the chance of mechanical vignetting for long focus lenses where the elements are further away from the sensor. IBIS moves the sensor around a lot and needs the extra space also to avoid vignetting, look at how much a 4/3 sensor moves around, FF would move even more.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uZBnl-BgSU

I've never really understood why people buy into Sony, Fuji, Olympus and other brands... You get Samsung NX1, and it just dies. With Nikon 1 at least you have much bigger second-hand market, F-mount adapter, etc. And look at Fuji and their ridiculous prices.All these companies are "one trick ponies", you get small size camera, but it's difficult to hand hold, you get fast frame rate, but it overheats, and so on, you get the point. Sure, you can focus via touch screen, but we didn't tell you battery life is 36 shots, sorry.Why would someone call their sensor "X-Trans"? It's just a damn sensor. And it always looks inferior to Nikon sensors in Lightroom. If major RAW editing app doesn't support your sensor, you're definitely doingsomethingwrong. RAW starts at ISO 200, ends at ISO 6400, that's just b******.On paper everything looks great - in reality, it's a bunch of compromises, or complete MESS.Nikon & Canon get us pretty much covered, I use Nikon APS-C DSLR and Canon pocket camera with CHDK raw. That is all I need. I'm interested in Nikon FF MILC, this might be my first full frame camera. The new mount will probably accommodate MF sensors in the future.With Nikon and Canon you get what you pay for, there are no fairy tales! The price of a used D3300 with 18-55 kit lens is RIDICULOUS, yet you can do pro work with it, if you're skilled and knowledgeable. You can even print 60x40 if you have to.Nikon obviously believes that mirrorless technology is good enough for PRO use now, I'm 99% sure that their MILC is going to be better than any other on the market. A complete product. But it's still no complete DSLR replacement...

Robert1975 wrote:I've never really understood why people buy into Sony, Fuji, Olympus and other brands... You get Samsung NX1, and it just dies. With Nikon 1 at least you have much bigger second-hand market, F-mount adapter, etc. And look at Fuji and their ridiculous prices.All these companies are "one trick ponies", you get small size camera, but it's difficult to hand hold, you get fast frame rate, but it overheats, and so on, you get the point. Sure, you can focus via touch screen, but we didn't tell you battery life is 36 shots, sorry.Why would someone call their sensor "X-Trans"? It's just a damn sensor. And it always looks inferior to Nikon sensors in Lightroom. If major RAW editing app doesn't support your sensor, you're definitely doingsomethingwrong. RAW starts at ISO 200, ends at ISO 6400, that's just b******.On paper everything looks great - in reality, it's a bunch of compromises, or complete MESS.Nikon & Canon get us pretty much covered, I use Nikon APS-C DSLR and Canon pocket camera with CHDK raw. That is all I need. I'm interested in Nikon FF MILC, this might be my first full frame camera. The new mount will probably accommodate MF sensors in the future.With Nikon and Canon you get what you pay for, there are no fairy tales! The price of a used D3300 with 18-55 kit lens is RIDICULOUS, yet you can do pro work with it, if you're skilled and knowledgeable. You can even print 60x40 if you have to.Nikon obviously believes that mirrorless technology is good enough for PRO use now, I'm 99% sure that their MILC is going to be better than any other on the market. A complete product. But it's still no complete DSLR replacement...Well said.Rob

Laslo Varadi wrote:I would also add development of native glass to fit the new mount. Sony has a lead in that area. Adapted lenses and adapters are not as good as native glass and it takes time to develop native lenses.The problems are varied for adapters on Sony mount. some dont work fully with all lenses or are very slow to focus, you can only shoot at 50% of the frame rate with adapted lenses, only a few Sony lenses shoot at 20fps on the A9. We expect Nikon to provide FULL functionlity with Nikons AFS and P lenses. Due to the mechanical diaphragm we may mot get the highest frame rate on non P lenses. But if a adaptor does not give full functioality there is for many no reason to buy a new mirrorless body from Nikon.

cosmicnode wrote:Laslo Varadi wrote:I would also add development of native glass to fit the new mount. Sony has a lead in that area. Adapted lenses and adapters are not as good as native glass and it takes time to develop native lenses.The problems are varied for adapters on Sony mount. some dont work fully with all lenses or are very slow to focus, you can only shoot at 50% of the frame rate with adapted lenses, only a few Sony lenses shoot at 20fps on the A9. We expect Nikon to provide FULL functionlity with Nikons AFS and P lenses. Due to the mechanical diaphragm we may mot get the highest frame rate on non P lenses. But if a adaptor does not give full functioality there is for many no reason to buy a new mirrorless body from Nikon.I agree.If the mirrorless gives me IBIS for lenses like my Sigma 135 ART, I will likely be a buyer.I expect my new lenses to work well, but I also assume that the new camera will achieve optimal performance with lenses that have native mounts.Rob

no text here

Robert1975 wrote:Why would someone call their sensor "X-Trans"? It's just a damn sensor. And it always looks inferior to Nikon sensors in Lightroom. If major RAW editing app doesn't support your sensor, you're definitely doingsomethingwrong. RAW starts at ISO 200, ends at ISO 6400, that's just b******.I really wanted to like the fuji but that weird sensor... The factory supplied software couldn't duplicate the same look from the RAW files as the camera did, like who does that? The OOC jpegs were pretty good, but if I needed to correct the white balance etc from the RAW file, forget it.

Has Nikon specifically stated that this is a Full Frame camera? What if the Nikon mirrorless is a Medium format camera, like the Hassleblad X1D

Also, its hard to believe the guesstimates posted on Nikonrumors about the size of the camera. At 112mm tall, its as tall as a D750. Even the MF mirrorless camera's tend to be under 100mm in height.https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Nikon-mirrorless-camera-measurements.jpgIf you scale those renders down by 11% to 100mm, that takes the outside of the mount from 73 to 65mm. Then you take off 13mm for the mount plate(6.5mm each side), that would lead to an inner diameter of 52mm.Which is more typical of a Full Frame camera.

MrHollywood wrote:Everyone needs to stop believing that Nikon, Canon or Sony have some secret formula for mirrorless. The tech is around and OLD by modern standards.There's no glimmer of a remote reason where we should ponder that Nikon/Canon will have any issue making awesome mirrorless cameras.The mount is the THING!There is strong indication that Nikon has made their Z lens mount significantly larger. It may be in the 52mm to 65mm range and that's a huge deal.Why? Because... it allows for these advantages...1) Faster glass. ISO and fast glass equations are what newbies cling too. Fast glass allows for shooting in less light without ISO IQ compromise. It allows for more control of DOF and more enhanced bokeh. Higher ISO is not a substitute for faster glass.2) Smaller flatter lenses are possible...and lighter.3) Quality of bokeh improves overall for fast glass.4) MF sensor capability within the system. Larger sensors now fit with superior low-light performance. The FX sensor BARELY fits in the Sony system because it was adopted from a CROP SENSOR design.Canon certainly has a window open to match or top Nikon on this. But Sony is, at least for now, stuck with a mount that was designed for CROP SENSORS. That's a fact.I'm no expert on this, far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who can shed more light on this...as it were!RobThe BIG mount on the Z, coupled with the SMALL mount on the F leaves LOTS of empty space in the F mount adapter.  Enough room for a mechanical linkage mechanism to drive for all the pre E type lenses.  Even enough for a screw drive, for the really old stuff.we can dream, can’t we?

Alex Permit wrote:MrHollywood wrote:Everyone needs to stop believing that Nikon, Canon or Sony have some secret formula for mirrorless. The tech is around and OLD by modern standards.There's no glimmer of a remote reason where we should ponder that Nikon/Canon will have any issue making awesome mirrorless cameras.The mount is the THING!There is strong indication that Nikon has made their Z lens mount significantly larger. It may be in the 52mm to 65mm range and that's a huge deal.Why? Because... it allows for these advantages...1) Faster glass. ISO and fast glass equations are what newbies cling too. Fast glass allows for shooting in less light without ISO IQ compromise. It allows for more control of DOF and more enhanced bokeh. Higher ISO is not a substitute for faster glass.2) Smaller flatter lenses are possible...and lighter.3) Quality of bokeh improves overall for fast glass.4) MF sensor capability within the system. Larger sensors now fit with superior low-light performance. The FX sensor BARELY fits in the Sony system because it was adopted from a CROP SENSOR design.Canon certainly has a window open to match or top Nikon on this. But Sony is, at least for now, stuck with a mount that was designed for CROP SENSORS. That's a fact.I'm no expert on this, far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who can shed more light on this...as it were!RobThe BIG mount on the Z, coupled with the SMALL mount on the F leaves LOTS of empty space in the F mount adapter. Enough room for a mechanical linkage mechanism to drive for all the pre E type lenses. Even enough for a screw drive, for the really old stuff.we can dream, can’t we?Indeed we can.Rob

MrHollywood wrote:Everyone needs to stop believing that Nikon, Canon or Sony have some secret formula for mirrorless. The tech is around and OLD by modern standards.There's no glimmer of a remote reason where we should ponder that Nikon/Canon will have any issue making awesome mirrorless cameras.The mount is the THING!Couldn't agree more...Unbeatable!There is strong indication that Nikon has made their Z lens mount significantly larger. It may be in the 52mm to 65mm range and that's a huge deal.Why? Because... it allows for these advantages...1) Faster glass. ISO and fast glass equations are what newbies cling too. Fast glass allows for shooting in less light without ISO IQ compromise. It allows for more control of DOF and more enhanced bokeh. Higher ISO is not a substitute for faster glass.2) Smaller flatter lenses are possible...and lighter.3) Quality of bokeh improves overall for fast glass.4) MF sensor capability within the system. Larger sensors now fit with superior low-light performance. The FX sensor BARELY fits in the Sony system because it was adopted from a CROP SENSOR design.Canon certainly has a window open to match or top Nikon on this. But Sony is, at least for now, stuck with a mount that was designed for CROP SENSORS. That's a fact.I'm no expert on this, far from it. I'm assuming we do have a few experts here who can shed more light on this...as it were!Rob