Hi all,I'd like to ask about the M10 and M1O-R.I understand that the long exposure time has increased and have read suggestions that there is a slight improvement in highlight retention.Other than a bump in resolution what are the real world differences?TIAAnthony

78_Anthony wrote:Hi all,I'd like to ask about the M10 and M1O-R.I understand that the long exposure time has increased and have read suggestions that there is a slight improvement in highlight retention.Other than a bump in resolution what are the real world differences?In my experience the M10-R's dynamic range is wider than the M10's but it's not a big difference.The M10-R's exposure system is calibrated such that you get more highlight headroom if you're into pushing your histograms rightward. You can achieve much the same thing with an M10 simply by exposing less. Shadow recovery is really good with both cameras.-Dave-

I had given up on Leica as I am a landscape photographer and wanted long exposure - the M10R/M really delivers on that against the M10:M10R/M1/4000 to 8 Seconds in Manual 1/4000 to 960 Seconds (16 minutes) in Aperture Priority Mode Up to 16 Minutes in Bulb ModeM101/4000 to 8 Seconds in Manual 1/4000 125 Seconds in Aperture Priority Mode and in Bulb ModeTo me this a massive change and I now own the M10M which I love.Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I am having a difficult time making a decision!Touch screen and the level gauge is of limited interest to me, I like the idea of the quieter shutter but it isn't enough to really influence a decision.I see the M10 at iso 100 will go to a max of 2 minutes which for me is most likely enough.On paper it seems like the actual difference other than an extra 16MP is marginal.I found a review site with DNG samples from both, however the M1O-R reviewer must have been having a really bad day, the files aren't that helpful with obvious missed focus and blown highlights appearing in most of the example shots.Could I ask how do the files compare in post and print from both cameras?Thanks for your helpAnthony

78_Anthony wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply, I am having a difficult time making a decision!Touch screen and the level gauge is of limited interest to me, I like the idea of the quieter shutter but it isn't enough to really influence a decision.I see the M10 at iso 100 will go to a max of 2 minutes which for me is most likely enough.On paper it seems like the actual difference other than an extra 16MP is marginal.I found a review site with DNG samples from both, however the M1O-R reviewer must have been having a really bad day, the files aren't that helpful with obvious missed focus and blown highlights appearing in most of the example shots.Could I ask how do the files compare in post and print from both cameras?Thanks for your helpAnthonyThe M10 had a software update, so now does 4 minutes - but still a big difference for the M10R if you're doing a lot of long exposures.Some have complained about needing faster speeds on the M10R vs M10, which basically negates any difference in dynamic range in lower light. Others don't think it's that big of a deal. I can do ~1/60 with a 50mm on M10 and need ~1/125 for my A7RIV which has IBIS, so think I'd probably need ~1/125 to 1/250 with the M10R.The M10R also brings the M10P improvements - touch screen, quieter shutter.

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the update.Has the ISO selection for longer exposure also moved one stop?I believe it used to be between iso 100-400 that gave 125 seconds, with iso 800 restricted to 60 seconds.Are you now able to to expose iso 800 at 120 seconds?I notice from your insta that you also have the 50 Cron, may I ask if you ever have flare issues?I've stumbled on a few posts where owners have complained about excessive loss of contract and flare from out of frame light sourcesThanksAnthony

78_Anthony wrote:Could I ask how do the files compare in post and print from both cameras?I don't see any meaningful differences beyond the ability to crop more with the M10-R and still print at my maximum size (13.3x20" or 15x20" on 17x22" paper). I also don't object to up-rezing files for printing, and this works well with both cameras' files. ISO 6400 is cleaner with the M10-R.I do like having the M10-R's level gauge on those rare occasions when I use the rear LCD or Visoflex EVF to compose.Exposure-wise all M10 & later Ms would benefit from Leica readopting an RGB histogram. Removing it was form-over-function short-sightedness IMO.-Dave-

78_Anthony wrote:Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the update.Has the ISO selection for longer exposure also moved one stop?I believe it used to be between iso 100-400 that gave 125 seconds, with iso 800 restricted to 60 seconds.Are you now able to to expose iso 800 at 120 seconds?I notice from your insta that you also have the 50 Cron, may I ask if you ever have flare issues?I've stumbled on a few posts where owners have complained about excessive loss of contract and flare from out of frame light sourcesThanksAnthonyYes, it should increase some at each ISO.I was a bit worried too before I got the 50 cron. I find the flare only happens rarely - when you have light source just outside the frame. You can generally predict when it will happen. If the sun is in the frame, it hasn’t been an issue.

Thanks very much for the responses.I think I’m more leaning toward the M10. Whilst it would be nice to have the newer sensor I’m struggling to justify the additional cost for the extra pixels and some minor upgrades. I think I’ll spend the difference on better glass.thanks again your help is really appreciated.Anthony

I'm afraid I can provide no advice about the M10R but I can say I'm delighted with my M10 "Classic 😀".Purchased recently as end of line stock clearance, I'm surprised at how different the camera feels in use compared to my previous Typ240, and I'm very happy with the image quality and 24MP sensor size. In fact my computer would really be unhappy with larger files and 24MP is perfectly adequate for all of my needs.  The uncluttered menu interface is a delight, which would be true for both cameras.I think your inclination to spend more on lenses rather than body is probably the right one as it appears you're struggling to see a compelling reason to buy M10R.Enjoy, whatever you choose!

Thanks for your reply.Yes I’m definitely leaning towards an m10. I have fallen out of love with the Fuji gfx system. I love the output but I have reached a point where I just don’t love the bulk of the system anymore. It’s sale will fund a 2nd hand m10.I had a look at your links and saw your Jersey blog, nice to see you enjoyed my homeThanks again for the repkyAnthony

78_Anthony wrote:Thanks for your reply.Yes I’m definitely leaning towards an m10. I have fallen out of love with the Fuji gfx system. I love the output but I have reached a point where I just don’t love the bulk of the system anymore. It’s sale will fund a 2nd hand m10.I had a look at your links and saw your Jersey blog, nice to see you enjoyed my homeThanks again for the repkyAnthonyYes, loved Jersey and will definitely return.  We stayed at Greenhills, which was very comfortable and enjoyed a good exploration around the island.  We have friends in St Brelades so have a good reason to go back.... And the beach at Ouaisne was just fantastic!

After much deliberation I made my decision and sold my gfx system, and went one step further and also sold my  Fuji xpro3 and lenses. I found a mint M10 and picked up a new Zeiss 50mm f2 and still have some change left over.There are moments when I miss the flip down screen of the Fuji's for awkward angles so may take a look at the visoflex 020 and newever version 2 in time.However I am extremely happy with the move, thanks again for everyone's input.Anthony

Congratulations on making such a decisive move!I know it's not easy. I sold a couple of shelf-fulls of Fujifilm APS-C gear to finance the purchase of my M10M. Had to swallow hard to make that move, but I've never looked back!Right now I'm running three systems, the GFX100S plus nearly all lenses, the M10M (with M246 backup) with selected lenses, and the SL2 (with SL 601 backup) with selected lenses.And the one which sees the least use? The GFX100S! Why? The technical and optical performance of the two Leica systems is spectacular, easily surpassing the requirements of the largest at-home prints I produce from my Canon imagePROGRAF Pro-2000. And frankly, while the GFX100S experience is ergonomically adequate, even typical of modern systems, the user experience while working with the Leica systems is beyond compare. Maybe it's because I've been handling Leicas for over fifty years, but no other camera system I've encountered falls to hand so readily. The Leicas simply disappear in my hands, making the photo making process a simple extension of intensive seeing.Probably this is possible with any system one becomes so familiar with. I don't doubt it. But for me, at least, and strictly on this subjective basis, nothing else has come close.Any competent stem available today has the technical horsepower to meet the requirements I operate under. However, this "vanishing" of the equipment has a profound impact on my work. It is at least as significant a contributor to the pictures I make as any of the technical specifications of the particular equipment!In summary, buy the lenses you want to use over the long haul, then attach various bodies to them over time. You won't go wrong.

Thanks, really love the portability and simplicity of the M system and haven’t found I miss the gfx kit. 😀

78_Anthony wrote:Thanks, really love the portability and simplicity of the M system and haven’t found I miss the gfx kit. 😀NiceI love the M10R and the sensor. The only camera that will ever get this color 40MP sensor. It’s a special camera IMO and if buying new I would always choose the M10R even over the M11.

78_Anthony wrote:Thanks, really love the portability and simplicity of the M system and haven’t found I miss the gfx kit. 😀What M camera and lens do you use and  how are raw files and images compared to your gfx?

Apologies- for the late response!I had the Fuji 50r with the 50mm and 120mm as well as a p645 to gfx adapter and some Pentax 645 glass.I now have the standard M10 and solely use the Zeiss Plannar 50mm. Obvious difference is the resolution and the highlight and shadow recovery as well as the overall flexibility in post. For me the gain in size simplicity and the feel of the camera outweighs the advantages of the bigger sensor in the gfx.Hope this helpsAnthony

ElongMusky wrote:78_Anthony wrote:Thanks, really love the portability and simplicity of the M system and haven’t found I miss the gfx kit. 😀NiceI love the M10R and the sensor. The only camera that will ever get this color 40MP sensor. It’s a special camera IMO and if buying new I would always choose the M10R even over the M11.I think that the M10R may prove to be a classic.  For me, it has just the right balance of body shape, shutter noise and resolution.  Now if only I could find a used one in better than excellent condition to buy (in the U.K…).

Anthony before you do that consider the age of the camera.Check the serials, if you find a rexent M10 gor for it but you might be comparing a camera price wise that is 6 years old versus 2 years’Electronics get funky at some point …Also for M10R we should see firmware updates which for M10 will stop soonerIf your interested in new lenses that might become a problemI personally settled on the R for these reasons